Thank you Martin! Yes the consequences of sin are indeed very real as Jesus Himself states :
I told you that you would die in your sins, for unless you believe that I am he you will die in your sins. John 8:24
Romans 6:23 says, “For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.” At its core, sin is rebellion against God. Our sin separates us from God, the creator and sustainer of life. Jesus said, “I am the way and the truth and the life” (John 14:6). God is known as the great “I AM.” Life is in God. So, when we sin and become separated from God, we become separated from true life. Therefore, we experience death. Jesus did not become a “sinner” on the cross. He became a “sin-offering” (II Cor. 5:21); the same word is used countless times in the Old Testament, especially in Leviticus, with this meaning. The very fact that the Holy Spirit chose to use the identical word, “sin” (in both the Hebrew and LXX) for both sin and sin-offering should not be lost on us!
Only mankind needs to be conciliated to God, not God to mankind. Atonement is absolutely unlimited. Nor is God “particular” or partial or preferential about whom he saves…except that they must exercise their faith in the solid evidence and testimony the Holy Spirit has compiled in God's word and understood through His spirit. God has “elected” faith as His condition of choice. Jesus died for the whole world so that they MIGHT be saved, not automatically saved, as the world is still under God’s wrath. God will only turn from His wrath when sinners turn from their sins. Those who stay & remain in their sins are those who stay under God’s wrath, despite the atonement that was made for them. Those whom Jesus died for are still under the wrath of God and are going to receive the wages & judgement of sin…unless they repent of their sins and believe the Gospel.
Those whom Christ died for can still perish. Forgiveness was made available to all at the place of the skull, Calvary, but forgiveness only becomes actual at coming and submitting to Jesus and his truths as he calls & through repentance Godly sorrow & conversion of spiritual rebirth. No human is saved from God’s wrath until they repent and believe…only those who are converted actually have their sins remitted through Jesus' blood by God’s grace and mercy. The soul who sins shall die. The son shall not suffer for the iniquity of the father, nor the father suffer for the iniquity of the son. The righteousness of the righteous shall be upon himself, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon himself. Ezekiel 18:20
“Eternal life is this: to know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom you sent. I have brought glory to you here on earth by completing the work you gave me to do” (John 17:3-4). Getting to know the Father, Jesus, and the Spirit in an intimate, life-changing relationship is the essence of at-one-ment. About this process, Paul writes, “So all of us, with our faces unveiled, see and reflect the glory of the Lord as in a mirror. We are being transformed into the same mirror image, whose glory grows brighter and brighter. This is what the Lord the Spirit does” (2 Cor 3:18). Elsewhere, Paul writes, “Now that we have been made right by God by trusting in him, we have peace with him through our Lord Jesus Christ” (Rom 5:1). This is atonement—when we are at one with God and are no longer struggling to live a self-centered life and instead self life, sin the old man of the carnal fleshly soulish nature is brought to death at the cross and buried with Christ Jesus. And we are living in the indwelt resurrection power of Jesus Christ His life and the Holy spirit.
John writes: "All those who sin are lawless, be- cause sin is lawlessness." (I John 3:4) This uncontested definition of sin depicts us holding on to a lawless attitude. This self-absorbed, lawless attitude is what God wants to heal in each of us. We didn't ask for this attitude. It came to us naturally through our first parents Adam & Eve.
Romans 5:12 Therefore, just as sin came into the world through one man, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men because all sinned— 13 for sin indeed was in the world before the law was given, but sin is not counted where there is no law. 14 Yet death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over those whose sinning was not like the transgression of Adam, who was a type of the one who was to come.
15 But the free gift is not like the trespass. For if many died through one man's trespass, much more have the grace of God and the free gift by the grace of that one man Jesus Christ abounded for many. 16 And the free gift is not like the result of that one man's sin. For the judgment following one trespass brought condemnation, but the free gift following many trespasses brought justification. 17 For if, because of one man's trespass, death reigned through that one man, much more will those who receive the abundance of grace and the free gift of righteousness reign in life through the one man Jesus Christ. (See entire chapter & book of Romans in it's entirety and whole bible)
Each of us have taken the selfish attitude and received the inherited sin nature that we were born with from Adam and have developed it further. The freedom that God's kingdom stands for is such that He will eventually allow us to walk away from Him, the Source of Life, if that is what we insist on. Death is the natural result, not an imposed penalty.
The gospel Jesus talked about is not a legal transaction that gets us off the hook, with little or no character transformation, but rather is the repairing of a broken relationship. And as we get to know God the way that Jesus revealed Him to be-by beholding, & by his grace & spirit we become radically transformed & changed. It is no longer I who live, but Christ who lives in me. And the life I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me. Gal 2:20-21
As our relationship with God grows, our inherent preoccupation with self wanes & is put to death.
The gospel according to Jesus has nothing to do with imagined merits of our own, of self-righteousness or of substitutionary merits applied to our account to garner God's favor. Jesus came to heal forgive, re- store and reconcile us back to our very Creator maker Heavenly father. Jesus came to set right our thinking about God, and sin. & to correct the propaganda we've learned from the father of all lies. The good news that Jesus delivered is that God loves us beyond measure, that there is hope for each of us broken individuals, and that if we choose to be healed of our malady & opposition of rebellion against Him we are blessed with the life death burial resurrection and ascension through Jesus Christ's own life & empowering spirit & of course grace to become new creations to be set free from being held captive to the law of sin and death to now come into the spirit of life, walking in newness of the spirit of life abiding in Jesus as the vine continuously and in the word to develop & bring forth fruits that befit repentance and Gods righteousness that is imparted to those truly born again in His spirit. If we keep Enduring to the end, IF we obey God's commands, IF we do the will of our father in heaven so we don't have our names blotted out of God's book of life we will have an eternity ahead of us. Now that is good news!
Why am I bothering in writing all this? As it helps cement God's truths in my understanding via His spirit and cut through any other erroneous errant thinking that has come through the teachings of fallible man.
Thanks H, appreciate your summary and comments on this issue and agree with what you have said. Glad to see I have given you some iron to sharpen your iron on.
Thank you Martin, for your explanations, I appreciate your way of making Scripture known to me!
Thank you for your comment, glad you appreciate it.
Christ tells us that My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me.
(John 10:27)
If there are any issue you would like to discuss, please feel free to contact me, so we can discuss the voice of the Good Shepherd together.
Thanks!
Thank u Martin
Thank you Martin! Yes the consequences of sin are indeed very real as Jesus Himself states :
I told you that you would die in your sins, for unless you believe that I am he you will die in your sins. John 8:24
Romans 6:23 says, “For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.” At its core, sin is rebellion against God. Our sin separates us from God, the creator and sustainer of life. Jesus said, “I am the way and the truth and the life” (John 14:6). God is known as the great “I AM.” Life is in God. So, when we sin and become separated from God, we become separated from true life. Therefore, we experience death. Jesus did not become a “sinner” on the cross. He became a “sin-offering” (II Cor. 5:21); the same word is used countless times in the Old Testament, especially in Leviticus, with this meaning. The very fact that the Holy Spirit chose to use the identical word, “sin” (in both the Hebrew and LXX) for both sin and sin-offering should not be lost on us!
Only mankind needs to be conciliated to God, not God to mankind. Atonement is absolutely unlimited. Nor is God “particular” or partial or preferential about whom he saves…except that they must exercise their faith in the solid evidence and testimony the Holy Spirit has compiled in God's word and understood through His spirit. God has “elected” faith as His condition of choice. Jesus died for the whole world so that they MIGHT be saved, not automatically saved, as the world is still under God’s wrath. God will only turn from His wrath when sinners turn from their sins. Those who stay & remain in their sins are those who stay under God’s wrath, despite the atonement that was made for them. Those whom Jesus died for are still under the wrath of God and are going to receive the wages & judgement of sin…unless they repent of their sins and believe the Gospel.
Those whom Christ died for can still perish. Forgiveness was made available to all at the place of the skull, Calvary, but forgiveness only becomes actual at coming and submitting to Jesus and his truths as he calls & through repentance Godly sorrow & conversion of spiritual rebirth. No human is saved from God’s wrath until they repent and believe…only those who are converted actually have their sins remitted through Jesus' blood by God’s grace and mercy. The soul who sins shall die. The son shall not suffer for the iniquity of the father, nor the father suffer for the iniquity of the son. The righteousness of the righteous shall be upon himself, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon himself. Ezekiel 18:20
“Eternal life is this: to know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom you sent. I have brought glory to you here on earth by completing the work you gave me to do” (John 17:3-4). Getting to know the Father, Jesus, and the Spirit in an intimate, life-changing relationship is the essence of at-one-ment. About this process, Paul writes, “So all of us, with our faces unveiled, see and reflect the glory of the Lord as in a mirror. We are being transformed into the same mirror image, whose glory grows brighter and brighter. This is what the Lord the Spirit does” (2 Cor 3:18). Elsewhere, Paul writes, “Now that we have been made right by God by trusting in him, we have peace with him through our Lord Jesus Christ” (Rom 5:1). This is atonement—when we are at one with God and are no longer struggling to live a self-centered life and instead self life, sin the old man of the carnal fleshly soulish nature is brought to death at the cross and buried with Christ Jesus. And we are living in the indwelt resurrection power of Jesus Christ His life and the Holy spirit.
John writes: "All those who sin are lawless, be- cause sin is lawlessness." (I John 3:4) This uncontested definition of sin depicts us holding on to a lawless attitude. This self-absorbed, lawless attitude is what God wants to heal in each of us. We didn't ask for this attitude. It came to us naturally through our first parents Adam & Eve.
Romans 5:12 Therefore, just as sin came into the world through one man, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men because all sinned— 13 for sin indeed was in the world before the law was given, but sin is not counted where there is no law. 14 Yet death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over those whose sinning was not like the transgression of Adam, who was a type of the one who was to come.
15 But the free gift is not like the trespass. For if many died through one man's trespass, much more have the grace of God and the free gift by the grace of that one man Jesus Christ abounded for many. 16 And the free gift is not like the result of that one man's sin. For the judgment following one trespass brought condemnation, but the free gift following many trespasses brought justification. 17 For if, because of one man's trespass, death reigned through that one man, much more will those who receive the abundance of grace and the free gift of righteousness reign in life through the one man Jesus Christ. (See entire chapter & book of Romans in it's entirety and whole bible)
Each of us have taken the selfish attitude and received the inherited sin nature that we were born with from Adam and have developed it further. The freedom that God's kingdom stands for is such that He will eventually allow us to walk away from Him, the Source of Life, if that is what we insist on. Death is the natural result, not an imposed penalty.
The gospel Jesus talked about is not a legal transaction that gets us off the hook, with little or no character transformation, but rather is the repairing of a broken relationship. And as we get to know God the way that Jesus revealed Him to be-by beholding, & by his grace & spirit we become radically transformed & changed. It is no longer I who live, but Christ who lives in me. And the life I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me. Gal 2:20-21
As our relationship with God grows, our inherent preoccupation with self wanes & is put to death.
The gospel according to Jesus has nothing to do with imagined merits of our own, of self-righteousness or of substitutionary merits applied to our account to garner God's favor. Jesus came to heal forgive, re- store and reconcile us back to our very Creator maker Heavenly father. Jesus came to set right our thinking about God, and sin. & to correct the propaganda we've learned from the father of all lies. The good news that Jesus delivered is that God loves us beyond measure, that there is hope for each of us broken individuals, and that if we choose to be healed of our malady & opposition of rebellion against Him we are blessed with the life death burial resurrection and ascension through Jesus Christ's own life & empowering spirit & of course grace to become new creations to be set free from being held captive to the law of sin and death to now come into the spirit of life, walking in newness of the spirit of life abiding in Jesus as the vine continuously and in the word to develop & bring forth fruits that befit repentance and Gods righteousness that is imparted to those truly born again in His spirit. If we keep Enduring to the end, IF we obey God's commands, IF we do the will of our father in heaven so we don't have our names blotted out of God's book of life we will have an eternity ahead of us. Now that is good news!
Why am I bothering in writing all this? As it helps cement God's truths in my understanding via His spirit and cut through any other erroneous errant thinking that has come through the teachings of fallible man.
Thanks H, appreciate your summary and comments on this issue and agree with what you have said. Glad to see I have given you some iron to sharpen your iron on.
cheers
Martin